Al Gore calls B.S. on global warming naysayers

By Troy Hooper
Real AspenAugust 5, 2011
Al Gore is pissed.

The former vice president dropped in on an Aspen Institute media forum titled “Networks an Citizenship” on Thursday and railed against corporate evildoers who put profit above society.

Gore referenced the book “Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming” by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway, which tells of how petroleum, steel, utilities and other industries enlisted lobbyists to cloud the climate debate.

The ex-vice president recalled how not long ago tobacco giants “succeeded in delaying the implementation of the surgeon general's report for 40 years – 40 years! In every one of those 40 years the average number of Americans killed by cigarettes each year exceeded the total number of Americans killed in all of World War II : 450,000 per year. My sister was one of them. … It was evil, evil, evil.”
Al Gore isn't happy with corporate polluters.
Troy Hooper


That same model of media manipulation, Gore said, “was transported whole cloth into the climate debate. And some of the exact same people — I can go down a list of their names — are involved in this. And so what do they do? They pay pseudo scientists to pretend to be scientists to put out the message: 'This climate thing, it's nonsense. Man-made CO2 doesn't trap heat. It may be volcanoes.' Bullshit! 'It may be sun spots.' Bullshit! 'It's not getting warmer.' Bullshit!

“... When you go and talk to any audience about climate, you hear them washing back at you the same crap over and over and over again,” he continued. “There's no longer a shared reality on an issue like climate even though the very existence of our civilization is threatened. People have no idea! It's no longer acceptable in mixed company, meaning bipartisan company, to use the goddamn word climate. They have polluted it to the point where we cannot possibly come to an agreement on it.”

Gore lamented the diminished role that reason and fact-based analysis play in modern U.S. politics.

During the debt-ceiling debate, American Crossroads, Americans for Prosperity and a collection of smaller groups followed tobacco's blueprint for bombarding the media with their own self-serving messages, he said.

“Unnoticed in Washington and New York as the debt-ceiling debate was going on, the ratio of television advertisements was nine to one on the 'Don't-lift-the-debt-ceiling debate. Spending is the problem.' And now we're going to tip the country back into recession. It's absolutely insane,” Gore said. “Mark my words on this we became the greatest country on earth because we made better decisions than any other nation. And we made better decisions because we used shared consciousness-shared reality rule of reason best evidence democratic discourse free debate to figure out what's more likely than not to be the best decision here. It didn't always work but it worked a hell of a lot better. Since we adopted this new system we are making catastrophic decisions that have massive consequences. The Iraq invasion. What just happened with macro-economic policy. It really is extremely difficult.”

Al Gore calls B.S. on climate change naysayers ... by RealAspen


comments: 70 Comments on "Al Gore calls B.S. on global warming naysayers"

orsonne – Aug. 09, 2011, at 8:51 a.m.

Pretty funny Al Gore flys to Aspen a mecca for tourists from around the world where tourists are encouraged to come visit complaining about CO2 emissions what hypocrites !!!

I wonder what would happend to Colorado's economy if no tourists showed up there for say 2 consecutive years ?

Oh right i forgot plant a tree to ofset your carbon emissions then in 50 years after you're dead the the tree dies as well and decomposes and releases it's CO2 for future generations hAHAHAHAHAH

Rog – Aug. 09, 2011, at 9:01 a.m.

Good to see he's still drinking and making KoolAid. Apparrently he hasn't read NASA's latest.

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html

TN Dude – Aug. 09, 2011, at 9:52 a.m.

Al Gore is a turd. He needs to stop the "chicken little" act. We all know he's poised to make a fortune on "cap-and-trade". Why else would he be selling snake oil with all of his might. I don't appreciate him taking our Lord's name in vain either. He won't stop until he's hanging out with the Rockefellers and Rothschilds, handing out crumbs to the dumbed down society that can no longer think or do for themselves. Al Gore is a turd!!!

joecool – Aug. 09, 2011, at 10:08 a.m.

That's the problem with Al "Carbon Offset" Bore. He has never debated anyone on this topic. ONE honest debate and he will be buried so deep the Buddhist monks in CA won't be able to find him!!

Eagle in NYC – Aug. 09, 2011, at 10:12 a.m.

Al Gore's fraud is coming unraveled and the shrillness of his screeching reveals it. A hundred million of our tax dollars have been thrown at him for years and now everyone sees it for the snake oil it's always been. It used to be that the two subjects one couldn't discuss were politics and religion. But now, thanks to the failed cleric, failed lawyer, and failed politician, it's not safe to discuss the weather either, which has become for the Left both politics AND religion.

You've been found out, Al. Go hide with your impeached, former president Crooked Willy; the fraudulent "three Purple Heart recipient" 2004 presidential candidate John Kerry; Kerry's primary character witness during 2004 Wade Sanders; and the indicted, failed 2004 vice-presidential candidate John Edwards. They deserve each other.

Utah_Liberal – Aug. 09, 2011, at 10:37 a.m.

Al is so right on it causes extreme heartburn to the right wingnuts, all 4 previous comment submissions confirm such. You folks are so beyond stupid you are terminally ignorant and couldn't realize the truth under any circumstances. All aboard the Republican Titanic for you, but remember you must sleep down in the tiny rooms with the rest of the rats while the extremely rich "need" all the luxury space of the top floors and don't have to mingle with ordinary white trash Tea Baggers like you.

jdawgnoonan – Aug. 09, 2011, at 10:54 a.m.

Most of the comments here are made by the very people that Gore was talking about: People who know nothing other than what they have been told to believe. None of know for sure how bad the issue is, or how dramatic the impacts might or might not be. But if you totally want to pretend that there is nothing changing and that humans haven't potentially impacted the climate then I am sorry but you are gullible.

TN Dude – Aug. 09, 2011, at 11:03 a.m.

Utah liberal. Can you not see that Al is part of the uber rich? Let's squash this argument right away. Stop breathing, because you're releasing Co2. Sounds stupid doesin't it? That's the basis of this whole nonsensical discussion. The elite want a smaller population in order to have and maintain control. Forget the left-right paradigm. We're talking about right and wrong. To think that cow farts and people breathing are damaging the environment, is rediculous. Follow the money and not the "earth worship" they espouse, and you'll find out what the elite are really concerned about. Not terminally ignorant, just well informed. I won't stupe to calling you names, because it took me a while to recognize all the lies we've been told.

jacdenver – Aug. 09, 2011, at 11:28 a.m.

It's really sad how distorted this mans thinking is. He sounds like an addict as I am too, but acceptance is the key. Al has no acceptance and I used to hate him with a passion, I feel joy that I can see him as the sick man he is and feel GRATEFUL he never became our nations leader. Praise God for that one.

Tracey1212 – Aug. 09, 2011, at 11:36 a.m.

Rev. Algore's new religion is not inspiring. He is the leader of the New Age Church of Environmental Extremism. Just as with many members of Congress who are lying hypocrites, Algore is from a family that has or has had huge tobacco farms. Reportedly, that is how Algore's family became rich. He has at least 4 mansions around the country. He flies in his own corporate jet.
So, like congressman who live a life of luxory, and like the leaders of communist countries, Algore is doing very very well while he tries to halt prosperity for everyone else.

scrjnki – Aug. 09, 2011, at 12:40 p.m.

"Shared Reality" Translation: Successfully crushing all dissent.

He is right about the use of hand-picked scientists who know where there bread is buttered. He just mistakenly attributes those tactics to the skeptics, rather than those climate researchers who were so loathe to share their raw data.

– Aug. 09, 2011, at 2:04 p.m.

The Real Scientists, with scientific and repeatable data to back their statements beat him to the B.S. punch a long time ago. Al's so-called scientists have produced no such data and, in fact, refuse to produce theirs for examination.

He is getting angry as he and his naysayers are being called frauds and extortionists. Their taxpayer funding will soon be drying up as more people realize that his ramblings are nothing but "snake-oil" salesmanship.

For more on this, please see: http://sleeplessandtired.com/?p=3307

Joewoj54 – Aug. 09, 2011, at 2:09 p.m.

Utah_Liberal,

You are such a typical liberal. Since, Like Al, you have nothing to support your argument, you resort to name calling and attempt to demean your opponents. Just admit you and Al is wrong. his can no longer be debated.

scrjnki – Aug. 09, 2011, at 2:31 p.m.

People like Utah Lib above get the "dog whistle" that Al Gore is blowing: Join my movement, and we will bring down those rich bastards together and usher in a new era of equality.

Does anyone, including Utah above, believe that if the proposed cure for global warming was to have less government control over all our lives, to tax less and to usher in a new era of personal liberties, that the theory would have been discredited long ago?

Read Utah's post again. He is barking to Reverend Al's silent whistle.

Tracey1212 – Aug. 09, 2011, at 3:08 p.m.

Algore is having a hard time convincing anyone that totalitarian government is the right answer.

scrjnki – Aug. 09, 2011, at 5:25 p.m.

To jdawgnoonan and other Al Gore disciples who, as jdawgnoonan says, " None of know for sure how bad the issue is, or how dramatic the impacts might or might not be.", there is an answer to that uncertainty, and it is called the scientific method. But beware, true science accepts, invites and encourages skepticism and challenges by scrutinous peer review of all presumptions, theories, and most importantly, raw data. When a "scientific" theory is advanced by those who hide raw data, smear and slander skeptics, and unanimously agree with their agenda-driven patrons who decide if those scientists and researchers will continue to be funded... it is time to shake the glorious dogma loose from your loyal brains.

– Aug. 09, 2011, at 6:30 p.m.

You know why they had to change the name from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change," don't you?

The freezing cold winters and all the snow were real hard to attribute to global warming. A mysterious phenomenon called the "Gore Effect" actually followed Al in his carbon-burning jets around the globe as he gave his speeches. Everywhere he went before the name change the location was hit by terrific cold and snow patterns never seen before. People grew disillusioned in record cold temps listening to Al talk about "global warming." With their new name they can now attribute all bad weather conditions, storms, earthquakes, tidal waves, erosion or anything to "Climate Change." Speaking of change, anybody have any left after 3 years of "0"?

More global warming jokes and discussions at: http://sleeplessandtired.com/?p=3240

Derfdome – Aug. 09, 2011, at 6:49 p.m.

Al Gore is right. If you don't believe him, and are unable to accept that the fossil fuel industries might have their own shortsighted interests at heart, some day you or your descendants will be angry you were led astray. Wake up people -- liberals don't want your money as much as they want a planet that doesn't have dangerous weather and a planet that might be able to feed itself 50 years from now. Imagine the next fifty years of hot summers and bad weather...

joecool – Aug. 09, 2011, at 6:54 p.m.

Al "Carbon Credit" Bore is a "Do as I say, not as I do" idiot, and he wastes more energy than any of us.

scrjnki – Aug. 09, 2011, at 6:59 p.m.

Derfdome, you have identified the dilemma, haven't you? We are asked to "accept" and "believe" what Al Gore says. Why? Strict adherence to the scientific method (as described in my earlier post above)should settle the debate. But your champion will not debate. Your champion will not accept critical peer review. Your champion will accept nothing short of a "shared reality." What does that tell you? What would that tell you of anyone who is deliberately poised to become a billionaire if we act on his dogma? Why is Al Gore deserving of any less critical scrutiny? Yes, Derf...wake up.

Shaheer – Aug. 09, 2011, at 7:06 p.m.

I wasn't going to comment on this, but the number of people who don't think the climate is changing and that Al Gore is part of some conspiracy religion is just confounding. Don't you realize your lives at at stake? It is mind boggling how.

I am cycling across Canada to raise awareness on climate change...check out my site, it contains Global Warming in pictures, A letter to Canada, and some childish humour. And some bitter sarcasm.

"Some political scientists say that climate change has occured many times in Earth history. Climate change is normal they say, so we should not reduce our emissions or prevent ocean acidification because we can adapt through Darwinian Natural Selection and Technology. Mass extinction is also normal. Hydrogen Sulfide mass extinctions due to global warming has occurred twelve (12) times in Earth history. So we should not be worried, because dangerous climate change has occurred many times before. This means we should burn more Coal and Ethical Oil, and simply allow our kids to maximize their ingenuity. Because human ingenuity is an unlimited resource."

http://save-society.blogspot.com

scrjnki – Aug. 09, 2011, at 9:27 p.m.

Shaheer, you are to be commended for your energetic commitment to your beliefs, but your cycling adventure is no more scientifically convincing than other, similar awareness raising adventures, whose causes and messages are equally suspect.

Is the climate warming? Probably. It is warming on all the planets in our solar system, as the sun ratchets up it's cyclic energy spikes. The question is whether enriching Al Gore and his carbon trading investor/partners--at the expense of economic vitality--will alter the solar activity responsible for it.

And yes, your faith is apparent. You are as unwilling to face the scientific refutation of the AGW hysteria as Mr. Gore is. Faith is fine. Faith is your right. Faith is what keeps all the pulpits in business.

Al Gore's pulpit is no different. Praise him in private if you wish, but don't proselytize to me, brother.

Shaheer – Aug. 09, 2011, at 9:37 p.m.

I'm not sure what "faith" you're talking about. It seems like accusing people of being religious is the new big thing? I've actually never read Al Gore's books as I prefer to get my science from real scientists, not hypocrites. (And Al Gore is a hypocrite). It does not appear that you read my site either. The effect of the melting Arctic ice is to extend the equatorial deserts polewards, double the total insolation due to GHGs, and release vast quantities of methane. The atmosphere also holds 4% more water vapour which itself is a powerful GHG and positive feedback. The sun is in the middle of the deepest solar minimum since the 1970s, however if you get your science from John Christy or Roy Spencer than I would agree with you, that the sun is the cause of everything and nothing that we can do can possibly change climate.

However, I agree with James Lovelock. The Earth is in a state of positive feedback. We should not be wasting out time with renewables and fanciful sustainability measures, but should instead proceed with a massive rollout of geoengineering, nuclear power, and synthetic food.

Cheers.

Shaheer – Aug. 09, 2011, at 10:17 p.m.

I guess I can probably add another couple things that are deceiving us. 30-50 years thermal lag means we're only experiencing the global warming from the 1960s to the 1970s. Most of the heat is being used to melt vast quantities of ice and warm the ocean. It's a bit like boiling a pot of water that's filled with ice. First the ice melts and the water stays generally cool, then the water warms, and finally the air above the water heats up substantially. We can see the East Siberian Arctic Shelf and Russian permafrost is finally melting and beginning to release quantities of methane.

Aerosol haze due to coal plants, airplane contrails, high sulfur refineries, and high-sulfur bunker fuel burnt by supertankers are also offering cooling and blocking 1-2 watts per square meter, or about 2 degrees of warming. However lifetime of particulates is short, on the par of 1-2 years, so if we were to cease these industrial activities the planet would abruptly heat. GHGs last tens of thousands of years and there is evidence that carbon sinks are beginning to fail. [warmer oceans hold less CO2, dieback of phytoplankton, photorespiration (CO2 emissions) from Amazon, increasing fires]

Global warming has occured many times in history and is a natural event, be it volanoes, orbital positioning, asteroids impacting carbonate rock, or humans digging up fossil fuels and burning them. Sometimes the sun creates slow and minor changes too, ie little ice age or medieval warm period.

Please raise awareness on the need for geoengineering and nuclear power. Search "John Holdren + geoengineering".

Tracey1212 – Aug. 09, 2011, at 10:43 p.m.

Shaheer, please stay in Canada. We have enough Goredites here. But, Shaheer, better get your cycling done. This winter is going to be SUPER cold since we seem to be on track for a Munder Minimum in a few decades. The winters are growing colder as are the oceans.
See you at LL Bean for some real good winter coats. Mine got stolen last year so I have to buy another. Probably was a freezing Goredite that stole it.

Shaheer – Aug. 09, 2011, at 10:55 p.m.

Tracey - do you have a response to any of the points I made? Or just name calling?

You may notice that parts of the USA are undergoing severe heat waves and drought. So is North Africa. This is completely in accordance with predicted temperature rise and the change in atmospheric circulation due to the loss of Arctic ice. The atmospheric haze of aerosols is altering altering the African monsoon, increasing the drought there. Unfortunately the oceans are not cooling. If you are wondering why winter dumps of snow are increasing, its because the atmosphere holds 4% more water vapour and when temperatures goes below zero, it precipitates out. As for the sun cycle, the sun is already in a period of low activity, and even if it remains low, this only accounts for 0.25 watts per square meter, and will not negate the 3+ watts induced by GHGs, + any positive feedbacks that accentuated warming.

I fully expect the great majority of Americans to move to Canada once the equator becomes uninhabitable due to drought. And you know what? When that occurs, we welcome you here. I understand that Global Warming is a difficult and scary thing to accept. However, we can mitigate the worst effects through geoengineering.

Derfdome – Aug. 10, 2011, at 12:58 a.m.

@scrjnki

You might want to start here, to read how the issues concerning climate change are being developed, including the skeptic point of view.
http://www.yaleclimatemediaforum.org/

Al Gore is not refusing to debate, he is out in public explaining what he understands, maybe less graciously in the moment here. Forget who he was and which political party he belongs to. Just read a little bit about the science that 97% of climatologists support.

scrjnki – Aug. 10, 2011, at 7:35 a.m.

Derfdome,

Al Gore is indeed refusing to debate. A stack of invitations to debate remain unanswered. Being "in public explaining what he understands" while carefully avoiding the inconvenient questions is not debate.

It seems everyone has their favorite links to refer people to. Some, like Shaheer, pride themselves in their ability to regurgitate theories as though they are settled. Please remember that in science, skepticism is the gold standard, and anyone who disdains skeptics are selling fools gold.

Here are a couple of links for you guys too:

http://peacelegacy.org/articles/global-warming-precautionary-principle-backfires

http://co2science.org/

TN Dude – Aug. 10, 2011, at 7:55 a.m.

Even Nasa says there's no global warming. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I'd sure trust a rocket scientist over Al "The Turd" Gore. If it were hot enough to melt Antartica, wouldn't it also be hot enough to evaporate the water at a faster pace (more heat, more evaporation)? It would also be too damn hot for humans to survive. We didn't create the Earth, God did. What makes anyone thing mankind has the power to destroy what God has made? Oh, only those who worship the creation and not the Creator. The whole "Environmental Movement" is just a green way to one world govt. There already talking about global taxes. Wake up, it's 1776 again!!!

TN Dude – Aug. 10, 2011, at 7:56 a.m.

Did I mention Al Gore is a turd?

sleeping giant – Aug. 10, 2011, at 9:05 a.m.

TN Dude - You need to stop listening to Fox and Rush. NASA says there's no global warming?
Um, NASA begs to differ. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

As for the earth, it will always exist. The climate that can support human life however? That's another story. God made man, but man can destroy man. And that's what the teabaggers are aiming to do, isn't it?

TN Dude – Aug. 10, 2011, at 9:25 a.m.

Don't watch much Fox, and don't listen to Rush. Sounds like you're watching CNN's Anderson Cooper, from the teabagger comment. Wake up sleeping giant, this whole global warming thing is a way for the elite to tax you for breathing. As for the tea party, they're not wanting people dead, they want govt. to leave us alone. I personally like to do things for myself, I don't need a cradle to grave govt. Anyway, read the articles below, notice one is about Nasa.

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/08/blockbuster-planetary-temperature-controls-co2-levels-not-humans/

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html

Tukadoodle – Aug. 10, 2011, at 10:17 a.m.

There is an old saying that "he who kicks dirt loses ground". Regardless of any issues, one never ever swears and religios dont like "g..d damn". Swearing distracts from the message which seems is Gores strategy to avoid honest debate. Typical Ill liberal tactics of trying to use the media in place of factual debates. Gore is trying to stay relevant and refuses hard facts like most ill liberals do. He makes a great living flying around and is yet another example of ill liberals that take a black and white stance using extreme Cognitative Dissonence to avoid ever changing facts as they mostly do. Extreme Psychological Projection is another common trait. Attacking the messengers is par for the course as is shaming/blaming, name calling thats the very worst! I am surprised Gore did not call them Nazis,Jihadists,Satan etc. as is also par for the course. No politician can ever be "wrong" and cling to old ideas in the face of facts. It seems Gore et al cannot face a real live debate. I am encouraged by all of your posts that speak the truth about just Gore.

Tukadoodle – Aug. 10, 2011, at 10:30 a.m.

Oh what swearing he loves to do! His "speech" is not about Global Warming, but an attack on America once again. He throws everyting in including the kitchen sink to divert as ill liberals do. Its an attack the messenger as ill liberals always do. It shame/blame name calling targeting any objective facts or people. Its typical ill liberal tactics to avoid serious debate. Trying his case in the media is typical form, as are ridicules analogies of smoking/his sister as ill liberals do. Yes, its one off "cases" they use, to the tiniest exception and never the rule. Typical ill liberals using emotions over facts they deny. Gore is yet maybe another that should be drained from the Swamp.

Shaheer – Aug. 10, 2011, at 1:42 p.m.

The problem with debating someone who denies that dangerous climate change is occurring, is that by simply being on stage with them, you are creating the false impression that there actually is still a debate. For example, few scientists would get onto a stage and debate evolution, the holocaust, or gravity. Simply because it creates the false impression of balance due to "equal time" on stage. And then the great majority of serial disinformers like Monkton, Lomborg, Spencer, Christy, Lindzen, Pielke Jr, Singer, are not there to debate the truth, they are there to create confusion with strong rhetoric and make sure big corporations do not pay tax for polluting carbon.

If you want to debate, go back to the 1980s. Even go back to Lyndon Johnsons time in 1965. Go to 1988 when the IPCC was formed. Go to 2001 when the Kyoto protocol for formed. The debate was well and truly alive then. No one has responses to my factual points, instead they name-call me and accuse me of religion. Sounds like pot calling the kettle black.

The truth is, and even the scientists acknowledge it, is that people will never believe that dangerous climate change is happening until a mass die-off of humanity occurs. And then it will be too late because of thermal intertia. It will be unfortunate, because you would have taken so many innocent people with you.

THIS IS WHY I SUPPORT GEOENGINEERING.

Because people will not believe that 7 billion humans creating fire and burning rocks and oil from the ground, can alter the atmosphere. They simply can't believe that their way of life is creating the worst environmental disaster in human history.

And you keep "claiming science" as yours. As if everyone who understands planetary physics is some sort of religious person. Well, NASA, NOAA, The Royal Society of Canada, Royal Society of Britain, The Met Office, Obama, Bush, Holdren, Chu - we're all stupid people who can't understand science.

Please, keep claiming "science" as yours. The future doesn't lie. Our planet does not stay habitable through magic. It is because of strict physical and chemical parameters.

I am glad it is just cruel words you are directing at me, and not bullets. Unfortunately, people fighting for the truth are always sidelines by special interests. Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther, Copernicus, and even Darwin were sidelined for there causes.

Humans have not experienced severe climate change since 12 000 years ago, when we switched from glacial to interglacial (Holocene) and the temperatures rose 6 degrees C on average, and sea levels 120 metres. We are not evolved to fear or recognize climate change as a threat. Now, because of our carbon emissions over the next 100 years temperatures will rise another 6 degrees and sea levels another 2-6 metres.

The future tells the truth.
And your children will ask "why did you let it happen when you knew the whole time"?

Shaheer – Aug. 10, 2011, at 1:45 p.m.

The above is my last response. Please, go on snickering and name calling, since that is all you are good for.

You are part of the Earth System, and you will be affected by Global Warming, the same as everyone else.

And in case you are wrong, which you are, you should be supporting GEOENGINEERING, NUCLEAR POWER AND SYN-FOODS.

scrjnki – Aug. 10, 2011, at 4:49 p.m.

Yes, and one of the principle effects of the warming cycle we are in is increased agricultural capacity. I have no problems with nuclear energy, as I believe it is far safer and more reliable than all other forms of energy currently available. Geoengineering is already underway, which I presume you are aware of. Synthetic foods? Well, that will be a tough sell to me. If we embrace a global temperature regime in which humans, flora and fauna have demonstrated the ability to thrive in our history (much warmer than now, for the histori-centric out there), then even your beloved Canada will be able to achieve 2+ crops per year, and the Amazon Rain Forest will regenerate in one fifth the time.

While you continue on your bicycle missionary work, spreading the good word, please consider that all changes that come to the Earth have costs and benefits. Consider both sides of the ledger.

And check those links above.

joecool – Aug. 10, 2011, at 5:09 p.m.

The only conclusion is that there is nothing proven conclusively on this topic. I can remember being told the next chicken egg I ate could be deadly, now, it's not so bad. Next year, the story may change yet again. Live long enough and you learn how many "scientific" conclusions turn out to be flat out wrong. Playing "hide the bacon" with the data to turn opinion one way or the other settles nothing, and fuels suspicion when people stand to profit, ala Al "Carbon Credit" Bore, who wastes energy with the best of them.

SegragateTheRadicals – Aug. 10, 2011, at 5:31 p.m.

Shaheer,

I apologize for the ignorance that surely is pouring out of the U.S. per this comment board. Please re-consider welcoming "all" Americans into Canada with open arms once there is an environmental catastrophe, I strongly advise screening them first.

Allow me to explain that the duma$$es on here that cant conceive of climate change are the same idiots that would actually follow a person like Sarah Palin as their leader, are still eating oysters from the Gulf of Mexico while screaming for more un-regulated oil drilling. If you havent been around this type of moron before, it's extremely hard to believe someone can be so deluded.

They're so blissfully ignorant they site "God" as their tool for "reasoning". It's gruesome at best, but a new movement is starting. It is aimed at segragating this group from society.

Best of luck on your cycling. More on the movement to come...

scrjnki – Aug. 11, 2011, at 6:04 a.m.

Dear Segragate(misspelled)TheRadicals,

You seem to pick and choose those whom you criticize with the same care that many climatologists sort their data.

Amid your poor spelling and usage, I note the same old tired method of insulting the arguer rather than the argument. It's not working.

For the record, I am a lifelong Democrat, non-religiously inclined, and have studied agriculture and earth sciences longer than you have likely been alive.

If Shaheer decides to take your advice and screens the morons at the border, I'm afraid you will not like the results.

jknovelli – Aug. 11, 2011, at 11:58 p.m.

The debate isn't whether Global Warming is occurring or not, it's over who is causing it. It remains a political issue because there are big dollars at stake. There are obvious signs that the temperature is increasing, but what are all the variables involved is anyone's guess. The bottom line is that the debate is over MONEY! What else is new? It's the rich taking advantage of the poor and nothing has changed for the last 4000 years. Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative, they are all the same people and they use fear against the masses to hold onto their money, steal our tax dollars and use wall street to manipulate the economy to their advantage. For the first time since the 60's Republicans and Democrats can finally agree on something and that is that Barack Obama is a liar, hypocrite and career politician. We may not dislike him for all the same reasons, but we do have a common enemy that represents big corporate wealth and has no intention of doing a single thing for the average person.

Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Senior, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, they're all the same wealthy people, get it? They're all on the same team. Oh, I imagine they have their differences from time to time and there may be a bit of a power struggle now and then, but they really are the same people. They are all HAVES and the rest of us, that other 96% are the HAVE NOTS. It's plain and simple. Start looking at things in that perspective and you will see that if we all stay on the same team, are numbers are greater. We're not Liberals and Conservatives, Muslims and Christians,Blacks and Whites, etc. It's just the RICH and the POOR.

The rich will use fear and continue to manufacture phony crisis to divide and conquer because that's how they keep us obedient. This is nothing new and Shakespeare said it best - "All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts."

We watch Congressmen, Senators and Corporate Elites pretend to represent us everyday. But the only thing that they are working at is to make themselves richer. Let's face it, when it comes to money, there is politics in everything and that's the joy of living in a capitalist society. Nuf Sed

scrjnki – Aug. 12, 2011, at 7:25 a.m.

To jk above, I would only add:

"The debate isn't whether Global Warming is occurring or not, it's over who (OR WHAT) is causing it."

The quest for reduced CO2 is really a quest to put a bridle and reins on commerce itself, and of course a battle over who will take control of those reins...and be rich beyond imagination.

The more one takes an objective, studious look at the earth and its systems, the more it becomes apparent that the earth is self regulating and self correcting. Increased CO2 triggers exponentially increased flora growth, triggering exponentially reduced CO2 and increased Nitrogen and Oxygen. The more air breathers, the more CO2 breathers are generated to balance and feed the air breathers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2qVNK6zFgE&feature=player_embedded

In the meantime, the most potentially destructive increase in hot air emanates from Al Gore's pie hole.

Tukadoodle – Aug. 12, 2011, at 10:13 a.m.

As you read these posts, please look at whom is diverting the conversation beyond Climate change NOT Global Warming.Watch the ill liberals divert to it being about the "rich and the poor". Also look at weak minded folks always BLAMING someone else like Palin or the Tea Party I don't necessarily support. I just wonder how Gore and others arrived in Aspen. I assume many used their private Jets. Like I always say "He who always kicks dirt, always loses ground". When people start swearing and blaming its a sure sign of desperation. If you insist on talking about money and the rich and the poor, then look at how much old Al earns peddling his story. Its a story borne of from extreme Cognitive Dissonance and Psychological Projections that's typical of weak minds. Anyone that cannot admit they might be wrong and especially with unknown science is a terrible fool.To believe this is a static state or issue is typical of weak mined idiots thinking everything is in stone. Pretty soon we all are "offenders" just by breathing alone.

petwir – Aug. 12, 2011, at 3:21 p.m.

Yes, there are hypocrites on both sides of the POLITICAL debate (I too dislike the Al Gore dog and pony show because it seems to be primarily political). Money and prestige is providing incentive for BOTH SIDES. That is only natural. But to point to one side and say "see the corruption?" to imply that only the other side is corrupt is an illogical argument since both sides are guilty.

Please pay attention to what the observable sciences tell us. No one single observation proves or disproves the AGW theory; it is the collection of all of these related scientific observations that proves the theory.

I often see claims that no one has sufficiently proved TO THEM that AGW is real. This is not an uncommon reaction to complex science. (See prior paragraph which points out that no single study proves AGW.) If a doctor says you have terminal cancer your first reaction will be disbelief. You might get multiple opinions in order to seek a more favorable opinion. It is very healthy to do so, and that is what most climate denialists are doing today... looking and hoping that there is a more favorable opinion out there. And sure enough there are people making a living off of providing that alternate opinion regarding AGW. It’s only natural. But are these alternate opinions really scientifically based, or are they just “opinions”?

Nature will take its course no matter what anyone debates, argues, or believes. So please pay attention to what the peer reviewed scientific observations are telling us. (I’m aware that some denialists now claim the peer review process is hopelessly corrupt. If this is you’re belief, then I think you’re lack of faith in mankind’s will to do the right thing is telling.)

joecool – Aug. 12, 2011, at 3:29 p.m.

When I see some agreement on both sides of the question relative to what "peer reviewed" scientific observations are telling us, I may start to form some opinions one way or the other. Until then, the only reasonable conclusion is that there is not enough verified evidence available to reach conclusions. In the meantime, Al "Carbon Credit" Bore is the leader of those trying to take financial advantage of the situation.

scrjnki – Aug. 12, 2011, at 6:06 p.m.

What is telling is when someone uses the word "alarmist" or "denialist" (or "denier"). I have used neither. Petwir has betrayed his bias.

No gold star in science for you!

Socal – Aug. 13, 2011, at 8:03 a.m.

The truth is, it just doesn't matter who is right in this debate. Like it or not, there is no economically viable alternative to fossil fuels, period. The real delusion is to think that our continued use of fossil fuel is driven by anything other than market forces. The market is the real dictator here, when something better and more efficient comes along, fossil fuels will go away, not before. Look at your history folks, remember the Clipper ships? They were fast and immensely profitable, and were in use until the end of the 19th century, but they were displaced by steam - Wind versus Coal, in the arena of the market place, Coal wins. It's no less true today, if anybody could build a wind powered freighter that could more efficiently run freight from China to here and back, they would do it and the market would embrace it. But no one can, wind cannot compete with fossil.
Our immense prosperity, our unprecedented prosperity, is the product of the energy released by fossil fuels. If we step away from them, we step back from our prosperity as well. Is anyone really willing to do that? I guarantee that the Chinese are not. There is a reasonable argument on both sides of this issue. I choose to believe the global warming skeptics because I think there is substantial merit to their arguments. But I know that I am prejudiced because I don't want to believe that my children's future will be substantially less prosperous than my own. Just stop for a moment, imagine our world powered by the energy sources of the 18th century. If you envision what I do, you can see how preposterous a notion it is. We have a compact with fossil fuel: We burn it, it makes us rich. Let's just hope that it's not a bargain with the devil because there is no turning back.

OLD ENOUGH – Aug. 14, 2011, at 10:34 a.m.

To all of you ignorant right(wrong)wing followers of the Great Republican PIED PIPER. You are being led down the path that the rich, corporate, privileged people of this great country want you on. All the way to complete oblivion! If you wish to bash Al Gore and other proponents of this critical problem, go ahead and blast away. There will be a price to pay for your stupidity in your childrens' future. TV & radio talk show hosts have done a great disservice to the most gullible population of this country. They really don't give a hoot for your rights or your life, they are only lining their pockets from the above mentioned few...Wake up America!!!
Signed, OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER

aofal – Aug. 14, 2011, at 12:22 p.m.

Everybody needs to get as pissed off as Gore about Climate Change. I still can't help but wish, though, that he'd have fought so hard with preventing 8 years of George W. Bush. Then again, ex-presidents and/or vice presidents are always more free to really get things done because they can indeed get pissed off when they want and need to - without having to worry what others think. Keep that kick-ass 'tude Mr. Gore. It will inevitably catch on. Just like the risks of tobacco use. FTDS of all who doubt. Rahm's Retards.

williamsraj – Aug. 14, 2011, at 12:22 p.m.

I am an Independant. That goes for my thinking as well. There are two sides of a coin and so are the debates about global warming. There is plenty of green washing going on but the question to ask from all of the global warming debate is "what is the minimum I can do to benefit me as in save money and perhaps help the environment (even though you may be unsure of the latter)". If using less energy, water, and other "stuff" that my family is also guilty of doing, is a potential money saver, why not. Other than that, do not get bogged down with the politics and the rhetoric of the politicians. We are helping their cause and their career longevity. Let us use our resources (time and money) wisely!

Tukadoodle – Aug. 14, 2011, at 5:27 p.m.

Howz about an update and perspective...:)

Addressing the Aspen Institute in Colorado on Aug. 4, the former vice president declared that skeptics “pay pseudo-scientists to pretend to be scientists to put out the message: ‘This climate thing, it’s nonsense. Manmade CO2 doesn’t trap heat. It may be volcanoes.’ Bulls***! ‘It may be sunspots.’ Bulls***! ‘It’s not getting warmer.’ Bulls***!”

The Hot Air Network’s Green Room website, which reported the outburst, observed: “It would almost be fascinating to listen to Gore lash out at those who harbor an opposing view if it weren’t so pathetic.”

New York Post columnist Andrea Peyser was even harder on Gore: “Has the guru of global warming, the Bozo of ozone and pooh-bah of the probably-not-so-endangered polar bear, gone completely off his bleeping rocker?

“I’m talking about Al Gore, the former vice president who, after losing the White House, reinvented himself as a minor deity — a Gulfstream-riding, energy-slurping champion of Planet Earth.”

Peyser noted that Gore continued his “potty-mouthed tirade” with this comment: “It’s no longer acceptable in mixed company, meaning bipartisan company, to use the god**** word ‘climate.’”

Marc Morano, a skeptic of manmade global warming, refuted Gore’s allegations on his Climate Depot website.

One study he cited noted that a lack of volcanic dust in the atmosphere could be responsible for a rise in average global temperatures since the 1960s.

Several other studies linked solar activity and the sunspot cycle with the earth’s temperatures.

And Morano referred to a “peer-reviewed admission that ‘global surface temperatures did not rise between 1998 and 2008.’”

Gore and other global warming crusaders assert that an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere due to a rise in emissions is responsible for a continuing rise in global temperatures.

But Climate Depot maintains: “It is not simply the sun or CO2 when looking at global temperatures, it is the sun, volcanoes, tilt of the earth’s axis, water vapor, methane, clouds, ocean cycles, land use, etc. Climate change is governed by hundreds of factors, or variables, not just CO2.”

Peyser pointed out that scientist Charles Monnett, who had claimed that melting polar ice caps had led to the death of polar bears, was being investigated for possible scientific misconduct by the federal agency that employs him.

“The population of fuzzy friends has actually quintupled since 1950,” Peyser writes.

“Couple that with NASA’s revelation that the earth is letting more heat escape the planet than alarmists previously thought, blowing a hole in warming hysteria. Toss it all together, and you’ve got one nutty Gore just like most of the nutty Ill Liberal/s posts trying to divert with the usual attack the messengers with personal shame and blame.”

Shaheer – Aug. 14, 2011, at 6:44 p.m.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) acknowledges global warming is happening, much more rapidly than expected, and that this is due to CO2, CH4, and deforestation, and that this will trigger positive feedbacks such as water vapour that will accelerate global warming, however NASA is part of a communist conspiracy.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) acknowledges that anthropogenic global warming is occurring, but these people are part of a liberal conspiracy to subvert American freedom and install a New World Order.

The National Centre for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) has issued warning of severe drought all over the equatorial world on a moderate emissions scenario, not including methane feedbacks or tipping points, however these people are part of a Liberal Hoax and Environmentalist Alarmists.

The National Academy of Sciences of The United States (US NAS ) acknowledges global warming due to burning fossil fuels is occurring, however these people are part of a religious Al Gore Green Club.

The British Royal Society acknowledges global warming is much more severe than the IPCC forecasts, and has completed a report on Geoengineering (available online), however the British are colonial imperialists.

The British Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC) is now funding and preparing of a 1 km high pipe into the sky to test the possibility of injecting sulfur dioxide gas or sulfuric acid into the atmosphere to reflect sunlight and mitigate global warming due to GHGs, and the plan is to increase this to a 25 km high pipe, however these people are simply trying to increase their funding through alarmist tactics, just like other climate scientists.

A 2010 study published in the Proceedings of The US NAS found that 97-98% of 1372 climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of Anthropogenic Climate Change, and that the climate expertise and prominence of the researchers not convinced are substantially below those of the convinced researchers, however these scientists are part of a "boys-club" and prevent real scientists who understand planetary physics such as Roy Spencer, John Christy, Richard Lindzen, Fred Singer, and Politician Christopher (Lord) Monkton. These are the real scientists who have been oppressed for their views of real science, just like Copernicus and Darwin. Besides God put fossil fuels in the ground for us to burn, it cannot possibly cause global warming.

John Holdren (MacArthur Genius and science Advisor to Obama - google Holdren + Geoengineering Google Video), and Steven Chu (12th energy secretary and Nobel Prize in Physics) acknowledge how serious global warming is, and that geoengineering is necessary, however these two men are part of a New World Order, have a Liberal Agenda, and are also Eugenecists.

Dr Roy Spencer finds that global warming is not occurring and that the climate is actually cooling. We must be wary of the next ice age, and burn fossil fuels to prevent that from occurring. However it is unclear if burning fossil fuels will prevent an ice age since it is still debated if CO2 actually causes warming.

Dr John Christy maintained a controversial record that showed global cooling was occurring for 20 years, until other scientists discovered errors in his satellite calculations. His record now agrees with other scientists that global warming is occuring. However Dr John Christy maintains that this is natural variation due to the sun. So we should burn more coal and not worry about our kids future.

The Arctic is melting down and the water-vapour feedback is increasing heating, as is escaping methane from the East Siberian Arctic Shelf. The National Science Foundation has issued an urgent warning that even a small fraction released would abruptly accelerate warming. However the NSF is merely part of a chicken-little conspiracy trying to install One World Order.

Venus and Mars once has oceans. Venus lost its oceans and atmosphere to a runaway greenhouse event. Mars because of low gravity. However Earth is part of a Magical Physics System and atmospheric changed cannot possibly cause global warming, God would not allow it. The sun is 35% hotter than at its birth. This means a lower CO2 content can causes a runaway greenhouse event, even though in the past CO2 was as high as 4000 ppm.

James Hansen of NASA has stated that burning all the coal and tarsands reserves will initiated the runaway greenhouse event. However he is a chicken little alarmist and part of the Environmental Movement trying to sabotage Democracy and Freedom and take us back into the stone-age.

It is time to acknowledge defeat. We have lost. We have failed. Air pollution is blocking 50% of global warming, and thermal lag another 30%. The Earth System is now in a state of positive feedback moving towards a global average temperature 5-9 degrees Celcius hotter. The Ice Ages was only 6 degrees Celcius cooler (for comparison). This means we are headed for Desert Earth. Reducing emissions to zero will not stop global warming, but will clear air pollution and increase the rate of warming through natural feedback processes. A 4 degree Celcius hotter world will lose up to 90% of its agriculture area. This means population will be reduced through famine and disease. Natural gas fertilizer and petrochemical pesticides and feedstocks are also becoming more scarce, and will exacerbate famine. We much acknowledge that we have failed, and instead heavily fund and process with geoengineering, nuclear power, and synthetic food

However, I am part of a Goredite Religion, so everything I say is evil and a hoax.

Shaheer – Aug. 14, 2011, at 7:38 p.m.

I'm writing under Shaheer's name because I'm not registered on this site, he was using my computer and left the page open.

I cycled and likely slowed Shaheer down for the past couple of days through Saskatchewan.

Shaheer and I are old friends.. relatively speaking, we are both still in our twenties. We went to college and flight school together, sharing an apartment during much of college. I decided to cycle w/ him on my vacation time. I'm still a professional pilot, but Shaheer retired a couple years ago after some awesome west coast flying and got into medical school to become some sort of doctor. To my surprise he quit a few years in. He'd done some serious research on the state of the climate and decided nothing was more important then bringing awareness to people about this subject.

Shaheer has never enjoyed talking about politics. Which is something I like discussing. He doesn't have any religion either, which I hate to say since it segregates so many. Anyway I digress, my point is that he's putting a lot of effort more then someone would at a full time job, into understanding the science and arguments being made and that mindless bantering or expressing uneducated views on this subject is disheartening and damaging.

Anyway, godspeed all. I kinda think its too late, we'll see what the next couple of decade brings.

Regards,
Ryan

Tracey1212 – Aug. 15, 2011, at 12:45 a.m.

Did I mention that Algore is full of crap?

Shaheer – Aug. 15, 2011, at 11:23 a.m.

Poor Tracey. It sounds like your brain has short-circuited and is stuck on repeat.

TimeToSegregate – Aug. 16, 2011, at 3:02 p.m.

Shaheer,

I commend your efforts and hope you keep up the good work on your end.


scrjnki,

Idiots like you need to try and comprehend that WE are not trying to convince you of anything anymore.

WE are not trying to compromise with your kind.

WE are working on segregating your kind from ours.

scrjnki – Aug. 16, 2011, at 6:17 p.m.

Well, Segregate, I'm sure that YOU and your fellow illuminated and enlightened ones will truly rejoice when you have segregated yourselves from the non-believers, and purged them all from your coming Utopia. Best of luck on that.

In the meantime, let us remember that science is not a democratic means to a conclusion. Racking up the most team members from various governmental agencies does not a consensus make.

If it did, you may well not exist. The equally popular and equally vital-for-the-survival-of-mankind consensus on the need to institute Eugenics 100 years ago may very well have taken your grandmothers out of the breeding pool.

Again, best of luck getting those denier camps going.

scrjnki – Aug. 16, 2011, at 6:17 p.m.

Well, Segregate, I'm sure that YOU and your fellow illuminated and enlightened ones will truly rejoice when you have segregated yourselves from the non-believers, and purged them all from your coming Utopia. Best of luck on that.

In the meantime, let us remember that science is not a democratic means to a conclusion. Racking up the most team members from various governmental agencies does not a consensus make.

If it did, you may well not exist. The equally popular and equally vital-for-the-survival-of-mankind consensus on the need to institute Eugenics 100 years ago may very well have taken your grandmothers out of the breeding pool.

Again, best of luck getting those denier camps going.

scrjnki – Aug. 16, 2011, at 6:17 p.m.

Well, Segregate, I'm sure that YOU and your fellow illuminated and enlightened ones will truly rejoice when you have segregated yourselves from the non-believers, and purged them all from your coming Utopia. Best of luck on that.

In the meantime, let us remember that science is not a democratic means to a conclusion. Racking up the most team members from various governmental agencies does not a consensus make.

If it did, you may well not exist. The equally popular and equally vital-for-the-survival-of-mankind consensus on the need to institute Eugenics 100 years ago may very well have taken your grandmothers out of the breeding pool.

Again, best of luck getting those denier camps going.

Shaheer – Aug. 16, 2011, at 7:01 p.m.

Of course science is not a democratic process Scrjnkl. I find it amusing that you use that one line argument to refute every climate scientist and governmental organization in the whole world. You must feel a terrible cognitive dissonance. It is also interesting that you brought up the Eugenics, a fallacious argument I mentioned about Holdren and Chu.. Since Eugenics occurred in the past, therefore everything about climate science if false. Hahahaha.

There is no need to segregate anyone or stick them in camps. Those people who think climate change is a hoax will continue to buy homes near the equator and sea level. Texans don't believe in AGW and they are now suffering from severe heat waves and drought. Those people who understand science will look at the precipitation/drought/thermal anomaly maps and move to the habitable zones in high latitudes away from sea-level.

The question becomes - What will it take to convince you Scr that AGW is real? The answer is that it is impossible. Nothing will ever convince you. Besides, it is too late to stop catastrophic climate change.

A 4 degree C world, which is expected by 2060 at the latest, can feed less than 1 billion people. Even a mass die off of humanity due to severe global warming is unlikely to change your mind because it does not agree with your world-view. You will probably blame other factors such as the sun and overpopulation, but not fossil fuel CO2 and resulting feedbacks.

Darwinian Natural Selection roots out the false beliefs that don't accord with reality. We don't need camps for idiots. We don't care about you enough to build you a camp.

scrjnki – Aug. 16, 2011, at 10:17 p.m.

Wow! Every "climate scientist and governmental organization in the whole world"! Have you ever known any truly scientific theory that has achieved such absolute unanimity? Why...I bet that's in the Guinness Book somewhere! Ever wonder how such unanimity is achieved in a discipline where skepticism is valued and demanded, so as to test test test those theories for human biases? What should a dispassionate observer conclude from such speedy and startling unanimity??

Here's one way. A real life example of how professional threats skewer the credibility of AGW believers and silence those professionals who dare to speak up about their doubts. "Shut up, or find a new profession."

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=3ab9e37d-802a-23ad-430e-1c42aad22006

Oh, and by the way, the U.S. Senate is a "governmental organization." But you knew that. Finding it took--according to Google--0.32 seconds. Ain't information a bitch!?

But please...continue your bicycle-mounted missionary work, bringing forth the glorious word of salvation. All you need is a short haircut, white shirt and a skinny black tie to complete the picture.

Hallelujah Brother!

scrjnki – Aug. 16, 2011, at 10:36 p.m.

Cullen Featured Advocate of Nuremberg-Style Trials for Climate Skeptics

In addition, Cullen’s December 17, 2006 episode of "The Climate Code" TV show, featured a columnist who openly called for Nuremberg-style Trials for climate skeptics. Cullen featured Grist Magazine’s Dave Roberts as an eco-expert opining on energy issues, with no mention of his public call to institute what amounts to the death penalty for scientists who express skepticism about global warming. See: http://epw.senate.gov/fact.cfm?party=rep&id=264568


Cullen’s call for suppressing scientific dissent comes at a time when many skeptical scientists affiliated with Universities have essentially been silenced over fears of loss of tenure and the withdrawal of research grant money. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) process has also steadily pushed scientists away who hold inconvenient skeptical views and reject the alarmist conclusions presented in the IPCC’s summary for policymakers. See: http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=21CC88EC-CCA6-4A61-8C2E-78FA8DE4850D

Cullen also participated in the New York premiere of the fictional Hollywood global warming disaster film The Day After Tomorrow in 2004 and has routinely promoted celebrity environmental views. See: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200504%5CSPE20050414a.html & http://press.weather.com/index.php/press_releases/109.html The Weather Channel, which has billed itself as itself as the "pre-eminent provider of weather information," also served as a consultant to The Day After Tomorrow and allowed the use of its name and logo in the movie.

Shaheer – Aug. 16, 2011, at 10:54 p.m.

Poor Scrjinki

You have so much trouble accepting reality. All the worlds scientists and all the worlds governmental agencies are all part of a grand conspiracy. That's right. We are all part of a grand conspiracy to modify planetary physics. The Greenhouse Effect is a hoax.

It must be easier believing that we are all part of a conspiracy oppressing you, rather than humanity is destined for a mass die-off because of our unusual behaviour in burning fossil fuels.

Many planets have undergone the greenhouse runaway effect. Earth itself has undergone 12 hydrogen sulphide mass extinctions and thousands of abrupt climate change.

Why do you think SETI has not found anyone else in space? It is because technological civilization kills itself off.

I wish you no harm. I am atheist, but God bless you.
We are going the way of the dinosaurs. We are the third chimpanzee. We are driving ourself to extinction by burning fossil fuels and initiating the runaway greenhouse event. We are killing our children.

And you know what? It's okay. Its okay to kill ourselves and our children. It is okay to go extinct. It is okay. It is okay. There is no harm. There is no sin. There is no God. There is no soul. There is only physics. It is okay.

Believe what you want. It is okay. Enjoy life. Enjoy life. Enjoy life.

scrjnki – Aug. 17, 2011, at 8:38 a.m.

Thank you. You enjoy life as well.

It is OK to disagree. No disagreement on any subject would be (and should be) unnerving. Never once have I thought you religious in the usual sense. I find most AGW believers to be non-religious, but yet still dogmatic. There seems to be something in humans that yearns for something to believe in. A movement to be a part of. Something to give our lives meaning. That's natural, it seems.

On this subject, neither of us will persuade the other. So, let's agree to disagree.

Fare well.

Shaheer – Aug. 17, 2011, at 1:12 p.m.

I am fine with disagreement on many subjects. I am fine with Muslims believing they are Gods chosen people and everyone else is infidels. I am fine with them praying to a stone cube. I am fine with Jewish clerics circumcising babies with their teeth. I am fine with white supremacists thinking they're the best Homo sapien subdivision. I'm fine with Christians believing God died 2000 years ago on a a wooden cross and came back to life. I am fine with people thinking evolution is a hoax and that dinosaur fossils are God testing us. I am fine with ancient people thinking natural gas seep-fires were devils. I am fine with kooks thinking 2012 is the end of the world. I am fine with people believing that the twin towers were brought down by explosives rather than a Boeing 767 impact. I am fine with people believing that the earth is flat, that continental plates are stationary, that earth is geocentric in space and that the orbiting planets are 7 Heavens. I am fine with people thinking the Gov't is controlling us through flu vaccines and Chemtrails. I am fine with environmentalists being afraid of every man-made chemical. I am fine with people thinking that proven science like gravity, quantum, and germ theory is unproven. I am fine with people thinking smoking tobacco isn't linked to cancer. I am fine with Hippies believing that Earths biosphere will always regenerate and provide for us like some sort of Forever-Living Mother Organism.

But the fact is that these are all false beliefs not based in reality.

I used to be fine with people thinking that the climate and atmosphere is a stable entity designed for humans and that we cannot possibly change it so as to become uninhabitable and unliveable - however paleoclimate data shows us abruptly cycling through thousands of ice-ages, interglacials, and hot-houses. We also know there have been 12 H2S extinctions and "The Big Five" mass extinctions, of which only 1 was due to an asteroid. And we are only discovering more. The climate changes when a forcing is applied, (CO2 and CH4 flux, water-vapour feedbacks, orbital positioning, asteroid impact, ice-water albedo, sun activity) and that change exhibits non-linear threshold-type behaviour.

If, in two decades the planet cools down [without an increase in reflective air pollution due to geoengineering, reduced clean-air rules, or a Pinatubo type eruption], then I will acknolwedge that we all overestimated AGW. However observations show climate sensitivity has been underestimated.

But what phenomena will it take to convince you otherwise? If in the next two decades temperatures rise by 0.14+ degrees Celcius per decade, then you will be proved wrong. Then it will be too late, and arguably already is.

Hopeful optimists living after WW1 would have believed that another great war was impossible. Similarly, people today like to believe we live at the end of history and nothing bad can happen because of our intellect and technology. The Hopeful Jew after WW1 would never have predicted their babies would be thrown alive into an oven. However more and more we are learning that humans are an irrational evolved animal subject to blindspots, handicaps and whims. The fact is we live in a completely new set of rules and are also in a population spike. In nature, population spikes typically heavily degrade and modify the environment and result in a mass die off. However if we acknowledge our reality we can use technology to mitigate the effects.

Nor do average temperature changes imply how severe consequences are. If you were to raise or cool your bodies temperature slightly, you would be uncomfortable and your body would resist change through sweating, cooling, or vein dilation/contraction. A bit more and you die. If you put your head in an oven and feet in a freezer, your average temperature is unchanged but things are pretty uncomfortable. And so small temperature changes in Earth produce a whack of feedbacks and shifts to a new equilibrium.

But the reason disagreement on AGW is so unnerving and dangerous is that it inspires inactions, and even increases emissions. Worst of all it could and arguably will destroy our civilization, our period of Enlightenment, Human Progress, and everything we have fought for. Even in the most optimistic scenario we will arrive at 4 degrees C anomaly by 2060 and minimum 1 foot sea level rise, and that is just a toll-stop on the way to a significantly hotter world with seas 240 feet higher. Scientists who study the effects of 4 degrees C anomaly say that population will be under 1 billion or 500 million or less. Observations of temperature, ocean, and emissions exceed the IPCC worst case scenarios.

So our inaction and disagreement condemns young people today to death, (unless we develop nuclear desalination, nuclear greenhouses, air-conditioned lifeboat homes and synthetic food). This is why it is so unnerving.... peoples refusal to minimize GHG emissions, acknowledge AGW, and support geoengineering.

However as I have no kids, do not believe in Hell, and do not fear death, these facts do not worry me so much.

T100C1970 – Aug. 19, 2011, at 8:00 p.m.

As anyone with even minimal knowledge of science should know, one day the Sun will become a red giant and the earth will become a crusty critter like Mercury is today. This event does not happen instantaneously even in galactic time scales. So a LONG time before that, life on earth as we know it will become go away.

Anyone who says we are "killing our children" even in the worst case of AGW is lying unless they mean it recursively. In the next 100 years or so some additional children in HOT areas may die if the temp goes up just like some additional children in cold areas may die if the temp goes down.

But if they do mean it recursively, it is surely true and surely unavoidable that all of humanity is doomed for reasons explained above.

It reminds me of a sermon of the late theologian George Buttrick. Its title was "What price progress in a world in which every man including the last man dies". As I understood it 50 years ago, Dr. Buttrick was trying to tell us that a man who thinks mankind can control the ultimate destiny of mankind is, alas sadly mistaken (to put it charitably).
T100

Shaheer – Aug. 19, 2011, at 8:56 p.m.

I'm not sure what the last anonymous post was for. The fact that the sun will grow hotter and Earth will desertify are known facts. You are not only inspiring inaction, you are restricting adaptation.

Perhaps you are having trouble with basic math. By 2060 population is expected to be 9 billion. Global average temperatures on a realistic scenario are expected to be 4 degrees Celcius. The entire global equator will mostly desertify. Rainfaill will also increase by 25% but fall disproportionally in the poles. Agricultural area is greatly reduced so carrying capacity will be less than 1 bI'm not sure what the last anonymous post was for. The fact that the sun will grow hotter and Earth will desertify are known facts. You are not only inspiring inaction, you are restricting adaptation.

Perhaps you are having trouble with basic math. By 2060 population is expected to be 9 billion. Global average temperatures on a realistic scenario are expected to be 4 degrees Celcius. The entire global equator will mostly desertify. Rainfaill will also increase by 25% but fall disproportionally in the poles. Agricultural area is greatly reduced so carrying capacity will be less than 1 billion. A more pessimistic scenario is 5 to 6 degrees C but will occur on business as usual. An alarmist scenario is 7-9 degrees C, but could happen with some nasty feedback. This is extinction territory. Zero percent of credible scientists see us staying below 2 degrees C.

That means 8 billion mouths don't get fed. This is why I am recommending synthetic type foods powered by nuclear technology, since even intensive industrial agriculture cannot fill the gap.

You do not need an imagination. Just basic facts and numbers. Look up the 4 degree climate conference and even compare temperature and ocean observations against the IPCC. Look at your local book store and read more than just "False Alarm" or "Heaven and Earth".

You gamble with humanity way too easily.

Shaheer – Aug. 19, 2011, at 9:00 p.m.

Sorry for poor formatting. Posted from blackberry and accidentally copied incase I lose my post.

Cicero – Aug. 23, 2011, at 3:12 p.m.

The latest from the global warming hoaxers is that temperatures have gotten so hot in some places that some species are moving at a rate of eight inches a day away from the equator towards cooler places to live. Some are moving up mountainsides for the same reason.
Notice that the increase in average temperature and the exact location are not given in the report.
Why is that?
Because if the average temperature at a specific place, anyplace, has increased, it's by a small amount, say one-half of a degree or, at most, a degree and a half. (And probably only temporarily.)
To produce the kind of change of habitat mentioned in the most recent article, the one published last week by the Associated Press that quoted British scientists, an increase of, I'll guess, at least 15 degrees, maybe much, maybe much more, needs to have happened.
A rise of a piddling degree or two isn't going to motivate all those species to abandon a particular location at a steady clip, I'm sorry.
It's a picturesque story but, like that or the Tichborne Claimant or Tawana Brawly, a phony one.

rockarooski – Dec. 11, 2011, at 9:47 p.m.

This is a funny cartoon about GlobalWwarming and Al Gore.

Al Gore in Global Horsesh#t. part 1
http://goanimate.com/movie/0oM8NpeWAq28/1

Al Gore in Global Horsesh#t. part 2
http://goanimate.com/movie/0K63D5X0_FEg/1

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